Superhero Fatigue or Just Bad Storytelling?

We sit down with John Roberts, Chief Producer of Pure Imagination Studios, in search of an answer to the never-ending question: what happened to Superheroes?

With the recent bombing of Madame Web, making only 100 million dollars with a budget of 80 million, many are starting to question what is causing this downfall in interest of superhero content. Despite the all-star talent, and many notable figures such as Sydney Sweeny starring in the movie, it still flopped at the box office. However, this isn’t anything new: prior to Sony’s most recent abomination, movies such as The Flash, Shazam: Fury of the Gods, Blue Beetle, and most infamously, The Marvels all failed to break the 300 million dollar mark.

Similarly, considering that just a few years ago, in 2019, Marvel dropped one of their best movies of all time, Avengers Endgame, making a staggering 2.799 billion dollars with a budget of only 356 million, and DC’sThe Dark Knight making 1 billion over a budget of 185 million, people are truly starting to wonder: what is causing this once profitable franchise to now become a fading echo of its former glory, producing flop after flop?

“You can get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of superhero themed movies and TV shows, with a large amount of oversaturation in these cinematic pieces,” says John Roberts, Chief Producer of Pure Imagination Studios. “For example, Marvel did a good job with movies such as Spiderman, then they did Iron Man, and they knew that they were eventually going to create the avengers, which we are seeing all these high profile movies, all these big superhero topics all coming together was in one way when marvel peaked.”

Roberts also mentioned the oversaturation of the Marvel movies, and the notion that perhaps it isn’t entirely the fault of superhero fatigue. “Also, predictable story-lines, with you knowing what was gonna happen, with shocking moments that audiences were waiting for not arriving, they weren’t developing the characters, making them more over-comedic.”

“I think [the Thor movies are] an excellent example…from becoming this wild, serious thing, to becoming a joke,” Roberts said.

However characters becoming too “over-comedic” was never a problem back in the superhero renaissance, with characters such as Spiderman and Deadpool being classic superheroes that have been known to be incredibly comedic, yet still drive in box office success.

Thor itself becoming overly-comedic wasn’t even considered terribly concerning at first glance, especially after the release of Thor: Ragnerok, which made double the amount that the first two Thor movies made. 

As Roberts said, “When they made Thor Ragnarok, it was almost refreshing with the comedy, but then it became too much with the introduction of Thor: Love and Thunder.” 

Movie poster for Thor Love and Thunder.

However, the idea of over-saturation – too many superhero movies being pumped out – can clearly be attributed to the failures of many superhero movies that were once considered gold mines in the movie business. DC is notorious for those shortcomings, with the Batman series featuring Michael Keaton, demonstrating how over-saturation is not a relatively new concept, and is definitely returning to the superhero franchise to rear its ugly head. 

“When Michael Keaton came out with Batman, people went nuts over it… with the second one doing just as well as the first one,” Roberts said. “Then they started recasting all the Batmans, with George Clooney, and it almost became a joke, with how many times they were gonna recast Batman, so when they continued to reboot and reboot, DC was starting to fall apart.”

Eventually, DC revitalized itself, before crumbling under the same mistake it made previously. “Then Wonder Woman came and that took everything by storm, bringing diversity to the movie business. A badass woman that was able to make a good movie out of her story, executing it fantastically,” Roberts said. 

Wonder Woman was also another classic example of how superhero executives made a wonderful DC themed hit, with the movie making over 412 million dollars over a budget of 149 million, making it the most successful film in the DC Extended Universe (DCEU). However, such a success was overshadowed by the release of Wonder Woman 1984, making only a mere $170 million over a budget of 200.

Movie poster for Wonder Woman.

“I think that you really need to look at storytelling and character development… when you start to prioritize quantity over quality, and you rush to capitalize on the popularity, then you can start to lose people because you are not taking good care of your franchise,” Roberts said. “…It became about how much more money we could squeeze out of the franchise.”

When reviewing movies, and how they perform, researchers will look into Box Office records and audience reception to see how well movies did in the past compared to how they are doing now. Roberts would bring up audience reception as a critical point in the decline of superhero movies, bringing up one of Sony’s most recent projects, Madame Web. 

“You can tell with the box office and what people are saying. People aren’t haters for the sake of being haters….They will tell you whether they like something,” Roberts said. “The thing about superhero fans, however, is that no matter what, they will watch the movie, but they will talk about it.”

When it comes to demographic differences, younger and older audiences play a huge role in how the movie industry shapes how superheroes are portrayed in film, with Roberts pointing out that movies such as Spiderman into the Spider-verse are gaining a lot of traction with younger audiences. “Younger audiences were very engaged in that. There are a lot of movies where they worry if they are on the verge of being not appropriate, but Spider-verse was for kids, and entertained adults,” Roberts said.

Despite superhero-fatigue becoming increasingly problematic, it’s evident that this phenomenon isn’t actually the reason for the downfall of modern superhero movies. According to Roberts, what the industry lacks is originality: “Look at Oppenheimer and Barbie….Barbie was a great example with a unique take on a toy franchise that would put a new look, and a new twist, with great storytelling, and that’s why it worked so well.”

Movie poster for Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse.

Another factor contributing to superhero fatigue is Disney, which has full autonomy over Marvel’s decisions, and is trying to produce as many films as possible in order to fund Disney+. This relationship is undoubtedly causing problems with new projects “prioritizing quantity over quality,” causing audiences to grow bored with mediocre content.

“Disney pays a lot of money for companies such as marvel and Lucasfilms, which all cost a lot of money, with Lucasfilms costing them 1.4 billion dollars, so they had to pump out all those films and shows to pay the money back,” Roberts said.

A trope about recent popularity of characters that contrasts superhero fatigue is the “anti-hero.” Shows such as The Boys, or Invincible, focus on characters that are not morally sound, or try to do everything in their power to do what’s right. The characters in these shows are pretty much villains in everything but name, introducing a unique angle to the concept of superheroes, one that companies like Marvel and DC are exploring in their narratives. 

“It’s not just about ‘I’m a superhero, I’m going to save the world, and I’m gonna stop the villain,” Roberts said. “There’s different takes of what it would be like in the world of superheroes.”

“Right now we are in a very strange time in entertainment where it is all about the reboots,” Roberts said. “Eventually, people will start talking risks again, and it will result in original stories, because someone is going to hit it, and everyone will say ‘Yep, we need to do that.’”

Now, it seems like Marvel, Sony, and DC are finally waking up because of all the new competition, with companies such as Paramount and Prime Video making much more original and, frankly, better superhero content. Marvel made plans to delay many of the movies they were planning in favor of this new ‘quantity over quality’ idea. DC is also following suit by bringing in James Gunn as the new director of a revamped DC universe. 

According to Roberts, “Great storytelling with great actors and great direction with great collaboration will always make great work in the movie business.”